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I'm not going to defend it at all... I'll leave shooting it down and picking it back up to everyone else... I'm just going to let it ride. Might not work... Might... Specifically for the American situation.

It's long... sorry... but it's the entire extent of my conversation, so I pretty much put everything.

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How to change DB gameplay wise to induce positive changes, and isolate problems to be delt with later. First... the change list... then... the reasoning.
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-Increase pass speed a little bit.
-Untargetted pass becomes no-look pass to closest teammate. (alternate: becomes no-look pass to last targetted teammate.)
-As little delay as possible between catching and being able to do something.
-Shot power is defined by http://www.far-out-dude.com/images/deathball/charge.gif
-Make shooter chargebar reflect this visually, by the charge starting in a small corner. and scaling up to something level where it goes towards the end.
-Charge is heard by shooter all the time, but heard by everyone else for only the last half of the charge time. Implemented via having a sound that sounds sort of like a tea-kettle going off for both the shooter and the defenders when that point is reached.
-(Optional: Make magnitude of the shake decrease as time passes until its gone .7 seconds later)
-(Optional: Increase time shake lasts to account for making it harder to shake)
-Volley power = to shot power when stationary. Slightly higher when moving forward
-No self-volley prevention latency. However, self volleys within 1 second are at 2/3 power.
-Self pick-up latency back to 1.4b levels.
-Make catching the ball in the air slow you down to regular ball carrying speed.
-No speed penalty for a short release of the ball.
-Jump does not drain sprint bar. Taking a hit, friend or foe, does.
-Sprint drains minimally for initial burst, but it is a slight increment;. smaller than it is now.
-(Optional Boost power to 2/3)
-All defenders, except for the keeper, have no catch radius when inside the keeper box.
-Keeper himself has the same overall catch radius (possibly slight increase), but an expanded "catch cone" extending out in front of him.
-Retain full power keeper dodge
-(Optional: make the keeper catch cone comparable to the secondary fire on the UT2K3 shield gun, in that it projects in front of the keeper, and drains stamina or something that slowly recharges, and if the ball enters that cone while active, make it a catch. Make primary fire shield gun with reduced radius, but no latency)
-(Optional: Remove keeper latency and reduce his hammer size. Make the catch-cone the alt fire for ball-less mode for keeper)
-(Possible: Make volleying the other teams ball in either half be EXTREMELY low.)

Those changes would fix most of the gameplay problems... might create new ones... but then,. you get to triangulate the problem, and find out how to fix all of them... Now... these changes to tackle all the stuff that needs to happen, such as attitude changes among the community... But, it fixes most of the gameplay hindrances.

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You can stop reading now... but if you want to know the reasoning behind any of the changes listed... read below.
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Pass Changes:
An increase in pass speed allows for more complex offensive plays with tighter configurations, and slightly more room for error than currently. Defenders, still with their volley radiuses, could still block passes, but the higher speed means they have to be more alert, and keep better track of the target, because openings for passes would be longer. This would also allow for more complex moves be open people, allowing for them to zig and zag, and not run in one direction forever. The no look pass change is to remove the prevalence of the pass-shot, but at the same time, open up the game for more juking. The "no look" also means you don't know if that person is open or not... you'd have to rely on radar. Either way,. it takes out the non-charge shot, and gives a new option to replace it.

Shot Changes:
The whole deal with being able to get a decent shot off faster, and allowing it to sustain for longer is all about faking people out. The first silent part, allows for the one-timers to replace the pass shot.... the second part allows for shaking still,. but reduces penalty box camping, because you have to be on the person in order to successfully shake them. However, you can still shake them. The ability to hold a shot at full power for awhile puts the keeper and the shooter in a duel of wits, instead of a duel of timing. Shake adjustments are for balance tweaking. Silent first part of shooting also allows for manual passes and sets, without getting those shook.

Volley Changes:
Volleys have power in their ability to be instant. A small boost for going forward makes them a little bit better... comparable to the boost that shooting got. Not to mention they're shake free... The Self volley change, simply allows for a "tactical cannon" something that won't beat a keeper with speed... but is another weapon to try and fake out the keeper. Cause faking people out is more satisfying all around than just blowing it by someone when they have no chance. This also still allows for near-wall moves that involve volleying... another valid option. The "possible" volley change is meant to reduce the "spamimity" of current defensive volleys. Currently, a defender will hit a ball out of desparation to break a play. This often sends the ball wildly out of control. If it were to drop only like 10 feet away, then either the defender would be able to pick it up and control it, or during the fall, an offender could do something to get it back.

Dribble Changes:
Catching the ball in the air slows you down... so you do not keep the speed boost for long, however you do gain some speed boost by the effort done with dribbling... Should even theoretically allow for sprint-dribbling. Jumping is independent, allowing for aerial maneuvers. This allows for an increase in speed based on an increase in skill, however, the fact that the person will always slow down when they catch the ball means that dribbling will not quite equal full speed. The jumping independent change swapped for getting hit reducing the amount of sprint you have allows for more 3rd axis play in deathball, and at the same time creates a new tool for defense, and a penalty for the team knocking someone down field. Defense, and even offense I guess, could knock people around to lower their sprint, to gain an advantage. Boosting would allow for quick movement, but getting blasted in that manner would lower our sprint, so you have little ability to adjust once you get there. I know most of NA doesn't use sprint, but these changes should be beneficial across the board. A reduction in boost power coupled with sprint drain would make boosting not so much of an automatic, because once you're done with the boost, there are fewer options to adapt.

Keeper Changes:
Only one person with a catch radius, yet everyone still blocking each other gets rid of multiple-keepers. May introduce a bug where people who go in and out of the box retain a zero catch radius, (based on experiences with shootbug) but if that occurs you troubleshoot the bug, not change gameplay. It is still possible to help keep by volleying, but that is about it. It should balance it out. To make up for the offensive buffing I have suggested, I propose making keeping more deadly, so that scores remain relatively low, instead of basketball scores. The keeper will be the shot-stopper, not the defense... the defense is the play-stopper. Once you get to the shot, it's the keeper's job... and you equip him so he can do his job. A formidable catch radius, makes that possible. Allowing the keeper to catch a little bit extra far in front of him adds more skill to the keeper position, allowing people to be better keepers by tracking the ball. The stamina idea for this cone is slightly shakey,. but could work in that very good keepers could always have more than enough stamina to work with, by timing their "grabs" right... but poor keepers, or keepers put under a lot of pressure would be a bit more frantic with the stamina. The philosophy for the entire set up is, Offense makes plays that create shots, Defense breaks plays, Keeper stops shots.

And that's about it.... nothing's in my hands now.

wow ramp, these are some damn good ideas, very well thought out, i would love to play a game with these changes... i am sure thier would be tweaks neccessary but i think it would be fresh and longer lasting than it currently is

what

speedy maybe you need to slow down and read it

Very well written, I love the ideas you have Rampart and would love to try them out.

Increase pass speed a little bit.

I think pass speed is okay as it is.

Untargetted pass becomes no-look pass to closest teammate.

I like this idea a lot. However, there has to be some kind of indication on the radar as to which way the ball will go. So even though there is no lock, the radar can tell you which is the closest teammate. Flashing dot maybe?

As little delay as possible between catching and being able to do something.

I believe they are working on that, by simply removing the weapon change and having a multifunction weapon instead.

Shot power is defined by http://www.far-out-dude.com/images/deathball/charge.gif

I like it as it is now. I don't think changing it will affect gameplay much. Just change people's timing.

Make shooter chargebar reflect this visually, by the charge starting in a small corner. and scaling up to something level where it goes towards the end.

Again, i think a little unnecessary.

Charge is heard by shooter all the time, but heard by everyone else for only the last half of the charge time. Implemented via having a sound that sounds sort of like a tea-kettle going off for both the shooter and the defenders when that point is reached.

Very nice idea. I'd like to see this implemented too.

(Optional: Make magnitude of the shake decrease as time passes until its gone .7 seconds later)

Maybe. Not sure if its necessary. Like you said optional.

(Optional: Increase time shake lasts to account for making it harder to shake)

I don't understand this one.

Volley power = to shot power when stationary. Slightly higher when moving forward

I see what your getting at here. Why not instead have volleys as a factor increase in ball speed at the time of volley.This factor ranges from eg 2 times to 8 times the original ball speed. A high factor is used when the striker is moving toward the ball at the time of volley. A lower factor when the striker is moving away from the ball at the time of the volley. Both give an increase in ball speed but in different amounts.

No self-volley prevention latency. However, self volleys within 1 second are at 2/3 power.

I would only consent to keeping the noob cannon if the power of it is reduced, as you say to 2/3, of SHOT power. Namely, slower than shooting the ball using the charge bar.

[B] Self pick-up latency back to 1.4b levels.

Is this to aid dribbling? I'm not sure why you want this. But I am against the reintroduction to dribbling. To me, Deathball is a passing game. Dribbling is for babies and old people!

[B] Make catching the ball in the air slow you down to regular ball carrying speed.

I think we will see this in 1.7

[B] Jump does not drain sprint bar. Taking a hit, friend or foe, does

I think I like this idea.

[B]Sprint drains minimally for initial burst, but it is a slight increment;. smaller than it is now.
-(Optional Boost power to 2/3)

I agree I think. The way I see it the sprint power bar should be much shorter but the speed increase you get should be greater. This means that its great for making space, but prevents its abuse. Combined with your ideas, would make sprint servers more popular I think.

[B] All defenders, except for the keeper, have no catch radius when inside the keeper box.

Doesn't seem like a bad idea, however, the volley power in the keeper zone should be relatively higher compared to the normal volley strength when hitting the enemy's ball in your own half.

[B] Keeper himself has the same overall catch radius (possibly slight increase), but an expanded "catch cone" extending out in front of him.
-Retain full power keeper dodge
-(Optional: make the keeper catch cone comparable to the secondary fire on the UT2K3 shield gun, in that it projects in front of the keeper, and drains stamina or something that slowly recharges, and if the ball enters that cone while active, make it a catch. Make primary fire shield gun with reduced radius, but no latency)
-(Optional: Remove keeper latency and reduce his hammer size. Make the catch-cone the alt fire for ball-less mode for keeper)

Yeah a bit like gibball style catching. Could be interesting. But no exploding keepers if the secondary is held to long!

[B](Possible: Make volleying the other teams ball in either half be EXTREMELY low.)

Except in the keeper zone.

A very nice post with some great ideas.

I think what Ramparts basically saying in this post is "since what we have isnt working, lets try something completely different".

The above changes MANY core elements, some to make simple tasks easier (the no-look pass) and some to make players require skill to get good at them (the different shot power arc).

I honestly think a lot of the suggestions are good, not all, but definatly most and a few should definatly be considered.

Many of you Euro's say "if yuo dont like it make your own" but that would mean we'd have to start from the 1.6 version or some other and work our way forward whoch is retarded considering all the cosmetic adjustments of 1.7.

Exponential powerup is annoying as hell.
1/3 of things you mention are already made, if you checked the versions list.

I like the "lower catch radius in own penalty zone if not keeper" idea
will be the other way around tho, means that the ball will not pop up to it's big radius for these players

jump not drain sprint bar....yup

most others are cripple solutions
stuff like "only hear half the powerup sound"
this would just seem wrong, and it would make people tackle immediately and shaking would work tho

all keepers would be killing me if we added a keeper catch cone
BUT if the ball was bouncing off otherwise, it could be done

the catch cone catches the ball... not bounce it off.

Its better than seeing the ball get sucked into the stupid keeper on EVERY SHOT.

cone catches, if not in cone, ball goes thru keeper......
yes, smartey man surge

k this post is too fucking long ......i stopped reading after ramp's first sentence, scrolled down a bit and "pressed the reply button" to write the useless reply

the shot power thing and chrage sound are both very good ideas davidm, it would take some tweaking but it would be worth it. the ideas seem to me the best combination of ideas i have seen in a long time, i think if you take bits and pieces it would make the game better but not nearly as good as if you could get someone to do them in their entiry becuase ramp obviously spent some time and thought about balance and such and if you take bits and pieces you fuxor up that balance

btw if you every lead a mod dev team let me know cuz i want to play that game

who, dave or rampart?

I think he means ramp

Can i suggest that instead of the shot power curve as in ramparts post, we make it the other way. Max shot power is a bit more, maybe 1.5 times, than now, and power goes like this: