My little gameplay story and why DB is on the right way now.
Posted: 28-05-2006 18:26
Why Deathball was in a deadend (0.9-2.3)
The problem started when I built the first goal in the first test map and pinned down the goal size, without really trying around with other sizes. Also stuff like volley, shake etc... they were ideas which were added step by step without being planned out from the begin on.
But nothing was really fitting. It was an untested game with lots of more stuff added to make it cooler.
Just it wasn't playable anymore, and to keep it playable I had to invent lots of limitations.
For example keepers could save any shot. The volley radius covered the whole goal. So we added a volley delay... you cannot hit a ball until it was flying 0.5seconds...you had to dodge to get it.
Horrible idea, you actually hit the ball, but the game says "fuck you, you are not allowed yet".
The other big limitation we came up with is the 2-step catch radius. When the enemy releases the ball, you have a VERY small radius for a short moment...so you basically cannot block a shot.
Or from an attackers view, you can pass pretty much THROUGH the enemies.
This turned out to be totally frustrating and unfair for defenders, because it is nothing but luck if you block a shot or not. Even if you are right in front of the enemy.
This is also the game hitting the player in the face "fuck you....wait 0.5 seconds until you can really catch it".
Also for keepers...who have the same small radius at first, which makes it all worse.
Anyway, I knew a long time ago, that these 2 limitations are the biggest problem Deathball has. I was thinking about ways to get out of this....until I found out, that the goal size is the root of all evil.
With bigger goals all seemed to make sense all of a sudden. The keeper can keep with no limitations, its all up to his skill (and ping). He can dodge, catch, volley whatever he likes, and NEVER gets a reason to complain (except about his defense maybe). And finally the attacker has the advantage in a 1on1, as it should be.
Also frustrating about 2.3 was that you basically had to get into the pbox to score. Keepers are so good, if you shoot from outside the box, they just get all. The high shoot power opens up the game much more.
You have a lot more options to shoot, and you can also play the craziest passes, which couldn't be done before, because of no power.
But the game is no more treating anyone unfairly. Also when you visually block a ball, its blocked. The 2-step radius is basically gone. It's still there for a very short moment (0.05s or so), but that's for other hard to explain reasons.
Also note that 2.4 is not what it should be like, just stating, it's on the right way, but very very good playable. I'm playing it every day since september 2005, and finding out more and more about what needs to be done.
It cannot all be done right now, because it's quite hard to get good, motivated coders with lots of time who work for nothing.
It will all be great one day, just don't expect it for UT2004 (nor for UT2007, since I won't touch any Epic games again I guess). I might offer small fixes for 2.4 for UT2004 though.
The problem is...I change a value...in a range of millimeters, and it takes a week of testing to see if that change was really good, or if it wasnt enough etc.
Also I want to put more emphasize on RMB passes, to spice it all up more. It is not really LMB-ish atm, even though most play like that, but the balance can go a bit towards RMB still.
But the game allows all styles, you just need to discover them. They might not be too visible at first.
One problem 2.4 has is the ignorance of the old school players.
Player A played 2.4 for a few days, and says it sucks. Player B likes to agree. And all of them saying the same, they love to agree...which gives them no reason to doubt what they say. If all think so, it must be right. Innit?
Talking to those people sometimes, I notice nothing but, that they have no clue about the version at all. Totally nonesense being told basically.
I myself started to understand it after playing it every day for about 3 weeks.
Up to that point, I was a bit frustrated about it, because nothing I tried seemed to work...it felt like 2.4 has no options to score. Now I know, it was 2.3 in my vains...and the old tactics didn't work, and I did simply not see the new possibilites. But then I started to understand what can be done. Seeing the other players at this time, it was taking that long for all.
Also all who dislike 2.4, play it with all their 2.3 habbits and moves in mind, and if something about it doesn't work, the game sucks.
You have to get rid of the old habbits and re-adapt. It's all new, but just better. Only it being so different scares people away.
Everytime I hear that 2.3 has more possiblities than 2.4...I just wonder which game they are playing...it cannot be Deathball. I know both versions in detail, and 2.3 is way more limited than the open minded 2.4.
It's always a bit silly, when I see certain people playing 2.4 (and in the game I see they simply don't see the chance they have, and I, at the same time, see about 3-4 possibilites which they could take) and then they complain about the game.
You can't force people to SEE the possibilites. Just need to give them time, and then they will start to see it too. Give it a month.
Sure, with a new big release, this all doesn't matter. Because new players have no habbits about this game and are totally open minded.
The problem started when I built the first goal in the first test map and pinned down the goal size, without really trying around with other sizes. Also stuff like volley, shake etc... they were ideas which were added step by step without being planned out from the begin on.
But nothing was really fitting. It was an untested game with lots of more stuff added to make it cooler.
Just it wasn't playable anymore, and to keep it playable I had to invent lots of limitations.
For example keepers could save any shot. The volley radius covered the whole goal. So we added a volley delay... you cannot hit a ball until it was flying 0.5seconds...you had to dodge to get it.
Horrible idea, you actually hit the ball, but the game says "fuck you, you are not allowed yet".
The other big limitation we came up with is the 2-step catch radius. When the enemy releases the ball, you have a VERY small radius for a short moment...so you basically cannot block a shot.
Or from an attackers view, you can pass pretty much THROUGH the enemies.
This turned out to be totally frustrating and unfair for defenders, because it is nothing but luck if you block a shot or not. Even if you are right in front of the enemy.
This is also the game hitting the player in the face "fuck you....wait 0.5 seconds until you can really catch it".
Also for keepers...who have the same small radius at first, which makes it all worse.
Anyway, I knew a long time ago, that these 2 limitations are the biggest problem Deathball has. I was thinking about ways to get out of this....until I found out, that the goal size is the root of all evil.
With bigger goals all seemed to make sense all of a sudden. The keeper can keep with no limitations, its all up to his skill (and ping). He can dodge, catch, volley whatever he likes, and NEVER gets a reason to complain (except about his defense maybe). And finally the attacker has the advantage in a 1on1, as it should be.
Also frustrating about 2.3 was that you basically had to get into the pbox to score. Keepers are so good, if you shoot from outside the box, they just get all. The high shoot power opens up the game much more.
You have a lot more options to shoot, and you can also play the craziest passes, which couldn't be done before, because of no power.
But the game is no more treating anyone unfairly. Also when you visually block a ball, its blocked. The 2-step radius is basically gone. It's still there for a very short moment (0.05s or so), but that's for other hard to explain reasons.
Also note that 2.4 is not what it should be like, just stating, it's on the right way, but very very good playable. I'm playing it every day since september 2005, and finding out more and more about what needs to be done.
It cannot all be done right now, because it's quite hard to get good, motivated coders with lots of time who work for nothing.
It will all be great one day, just don't expect it for UT2004 (nor for UT2007, since I won't touch any Epic games again I guess). I might offer small fixes for 2.4 for UT2004 though.
The problem is...I change a value...in a range of millimeters, and it takes a week of testing to see if that change was really good, or if it wasnt enough etc.
Also I want to put more emphasize on RMB passes, to spice it all up more. It is not really LMB-ish atm, even though most play like that, but the balance can go a bit towards RMB still.
But the game allows all styles, you just need to discover them. They might not be too visible at first.
One problem 2.4 has is the ignorance of the old school players.
Player A played 2.4 for a few days, and says it sucks. Player B likes to agree. And all of them saying the same, they love to agree...which gives them no reason to doubt what they say. If all think so, it must be right. Innit?
Talking to those people sometimes, I notice nothing but, that they have no clue about the version at all. Totally nonesense being told basically.
I myself started to understand it after playing it every day for about 3 weeks.
Up to that point, I was a bit frustrated about it, because nothing I tried seemed to work...it felt like 2.4 has no options to score. Now I know, it was 2.3 in my vains...and the old tactics didn't work, and I did simply not see the new possibilites. But then I started to understand what can be done. Seeing the other players at this time, it was taking that long for all.
Also all who dislike 2.4, play it with all their 2.3 habbits and moves in mind, and if something about it doesn't work, the game sucks.
You have to get rid of the old habbits and re-adapt. It's all new, but just better. Only it being so different scares people away.
Everytime I hear that 2.3 has more possiblities than 2.4...I just wonder which game they are playing...it cannot be Deathball. I know both versions in detail, and 2.3 is way more limited than the open minded 2.4.
It's always a bit silly, when I see certain people playing 2.4 (and in the game I see they simply don't see the chance they have, and I, at the same time, see about 3-4 possibilites which they could take) and then they complain about the game.
You can't force people to SEE the possibilites. Just need to give them time, and then they will start to see it too. Give it a month.
Sure, with a new big release, this all doesn't matter. Because new players have no habbits about this game and are totally open minded.