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As for my contribution on the play of db, personally I feel that pbox camping in db is not only a tactic but that the game is inadvertently designed to make it the most effective way to play db ( and since there have been a lot of complaints as to how pbox camping makes db a lot less fun to play both for D and O, I feel that this is a bad thing).

My reasons for saying this are as follow:

1. With a one on one D on O situation a good D will win most of the time and the same goes for a two on two, meaning right now the defense has the advantage. I think most would agree with me on this premise, (remember, I am not saying that it is impossible to score with these numbers but that the D has the advantage)
2. The more D you get back the harder it is to score due to: one, you have more ppl that can hit you, killing you or shaking you, or two that can catch the shot,
3. Right now the best place for a defender to play d is the pbox because you can get the instagib or when the shooter is about to shoot hit him (though the formation that a team uses in the box differs)

My first 3 premises are to show that pbox camping is a very efective way to play defense, which I think most ppl would agree to. So far I have shown no problem because there is no problem with having an effective D tactic.

The following will try and show the problem:

4. Right now boosting can get you up and down the field in a short amount of time
5. Blocking boosting can be done but is not very effective for very long (if the other team is any good)
6. Therefore getting ppl up and down the field quickly is easy
7. Therefore the amount of numbers you commit to any part of the game, O or D, is rarely limited
8. The biggest time that it is limited is that a team is generally forced to leave one D at least close to mid field; therefore generally speaking the O is limited to 3 ppl most of the time
9. The D on the other hand is not limited, because boosting someone far down field fast is very easy to do, and you can even pass to them while they are boosted if they do it correctly
10. Combine the already stated fact that the more D you get back the better the defense (in general) with the fact that there are no penalties (or very little) for putting back all of your men on D (due to the easy of boosting), you create a situation that makes pbox camping both very infective and fairly easy to do.

Which again is not necessarily a bad thing except when you consider the fact that there is no other style of play (at least that I know of) that is nearly as ineffective or easy.

I would further like to conjecture that pbox camping is not as fun to play. Because:
1. It slows down the game
2. Many goals are less satisfying because they result from mistakes by the D or from general spam and D is less satisfying because it is effective so often and it is not big accomplishment to stop the O due to the fact that with pbox camping d has a strong advantage.
3. It can make volley goals the most effective way to score and volleying not as fun because it is more spammy (I know many would disagree with me on this but a lot would feel the same, and even without pbox camping volleying would still be effective so you need not worry)
4. Also as further proof many ppl are complaining that db isn't as fun any more and many have left

Now I think I have shown that pbox camping is both very easy and efective to do and also not as much fun as other styles of play. I believe that this forces a team if they want to win games to play a less fun style or play a lot riskier style (of which I personally have not seen one consistently work)

The biggest problem as I see it is not the power of the D. I see no problem with D being able to pwn an O if he is good, and if you have 3 v 3 I think D should win most of the time. The problem as I see it is that the number of ppl you put on D doesn't not have any effect on your O (as I previously showed boost ppl allows you to quickly and easily put 3 on O). In most good sports the number of ppl you put on D and O are vitally important, but not so in db. Which leads to this not as fun style of play being forced on any team that wants to win (and let’s face it every team wants to win or at least do well)

The only way I see of fixing this and forcing teams to have to play smart in terms of the numbers of people that they put on D or O is to take away that incredibly fast way of getting up and down the field. I know this will anger many people, because they are used to not having to worry about the number of ppl on O and D, they just put as many as they can and boost when they need to. It may also work to limit the boosting power when hitting your own team, that value can be played with. Also, just leave the boosting of the other team alone because if you are stupid enough to boost the other team where they want to go then you deserve to be down in numbers.

****Davidm if you want one simple way to improve game play, the ability to use different strategies, and make db much more like a real sport, then you have to make numbers mean something, therefore you must do something about boosting.
Either: remove same team boosting or limit it more (boosting of the other team should remain the same).

The only problem with this is that some ppl might leave db, but I believe that ppl are already going to leave db, because the current way that is most efective to play is not as much fun. I think you in the long run you will have more ppl playing db 2 months from now if you do something about this right now and waiting is not a good option because if you realize you should do this after more people have left then the people that leave because of the removing of boosting will hurt the community more than it would now.

Sorry for the length but I felt the best way to make my point was to clearly list my arguments and reasons for why I feel this way. Also if you wish to argue with me I would ask that you make an argument not just say something to the effect of “you are wrong” “what an idiot.”

uhm, I promise I 'll read it tomorrow

Don't, just jibberish, wait for somoene to make a real reply...not spamming like U

There is an easy way for 2 ppl on offense to beat 4 penalty box campers, if the situation is right. We would score 10 goals a game on that kind of defense easily. So it isn't really a problem, imo. You have to find ways to play against different defenses. I don't think anything shoud be changed because the league games are very close and well played. (In the premier leagues at least) And since both teams can use the same defense if they wanted there is no advantage or disadvantage to anyone.

I think it's already been said somewhere, but the easiest way to stop Pbox camping is to have it count down when a defender is in the box. When it gets to 0 you could either respawn that person, kick that person out of the box (may be abused to self boost down field ) or restart the round. As long as EVERYONE can hear the countdown ("Clear Penalty box. Reset in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...) this may work.

May not be the best of ideas but it may do the trick...

i agree with foo.

pbox camping is prolific cos it works to an extent, but any good offence should be able to split it easily. Any 2man (or any situation where the o outnumber the d) offence that cant beat a single pbox camper should think about their tactics a little more.

putting a timelimit on, or kicking defenders out of the box or resetting the ball is illogical, mostly due to the time some defenders have to spend in the box whilst waiting on some teams wallvolley only tactic, plus typing tactics time etc..

this is not a "i can't score, fix the game" idea. my problem is not with the balance between O and D, my problem is with the lack of effective possiblities in formations and different teamplay, which i beleave destories the long term appeal of db. I would like to fix that.

Honestly, I don't think ppl are going to argee with me now, they have far to much invested in boosting. but i beleave that if boosting had never been in the game nobody would have missed it, and if someone had suggested that it be put in they would have been flamed for being an idoit, becuase of the fact that it would decrease greatly the effect ways of playing and it would allow a team to almost completely ingore the number of ppl they commite to any one part of the game. If a player is in bad possition they should have to pay for it not just get boosted back in about a second. In fact i beleave in the days that db was the most popular boosting was much more rare that it is today.

i thought that too....but you have so many possibilities, at first sight you dont believe how complex it is
you just have to find them, and your team needs to understand how to use them

we find new tricks every day

if you wouldn't mind terribly could you direct me to some demos of these different possiblities? (not to copy them i just don't have any idea what else would be nearly as effective as pbox camping)

hmm, long, but makes sense. before i read that i would have flamed someone for wanting to get rid of boosting. im all for the option to set same team boosting off. it will enhance the need for proper formations.

U cannot win a game if u r just playing def. U need an attack, so there aren t so many def-players back there. Be fast, intercept the ball and score. Afterwards the other team has to play more offensive and there will be more place

nameless that is just the point you can win a game even when you bring all your men back to play D (though generaly one of them is playing attack the ball carreir/block the drop pass), becuase right now commiting most of your team to play O or D does very little if any harm to either D or O.

OMFG, and how long have i been saying that boosting raped this game ???????

no boosting would kill it

how else would be we able to attack with 4 and defend with 4 players

Boosting didnt rape the game. The lack of offensive options and the ease of defending did.

look at it this way. Pretend this was an FPS game. the offending team has an accurate gun but when equipped can be killed. the defense has a gun with the ability to throw the offenses extrmely accurate gun off its mark and kill the player. Thats in no way ballanced or fair to the offense. Thats like trying to shoot down a nuke with a bottel rocket. The offense needs a way to reduce/eminiate shake even if it costs them some accuracy or shot speed.

In PlanetSide which i'm now addicted to all guns have a cone of fire. A small area in which the bullet cna be fired. When not use the same idea with deathball and resuce the shake to a circle about the size of 1/2 the net. That way you can at least get a shot ON the net instead of bouncing it off the wall and sending your team back to your end.

Its just stupid the way ti is right now. Playing the old cube with the nets out of the wall was fun on the RusH server because we never encountered this problem, vollies were still possible, and it was... *gasp* fun.