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Part of my game design philosophy is...don't make players play things more than once. It's like reading every page in a book multiple times if you made a little mistake.

In Mario you had to play the whole level again when you make a mistake....point being? I dunno...I already played it, I don't wanna do it right again.
Worst is arcade games...need to start the whole game again...

The coolest Mario experience was playing it on an emulator with quicksave (oh and it's really quick......some new games take ages to quickload). Then it's really really nonstop fun and never frustrating.

Save-prevention is basically something to enlarge the playtime in the magazins for better reviews. But some appreciate short and better fun. Like Max Payne 2 is only 6 hours, but they are damn good then.

Anyway...it's pointless to prepare for a mission in GTA (getting the right car, guns and stuff...takes a long time) and then you have to do it all over. A real fun killer.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'll admit to using quicksaves when they're there (no willpower. I tend to steer away from those kind of games anyway) but I don't miss it when it's not. I love arcade games: inching further and further on each go.

With the Max Payne series I always used to play every scene over and over again until I 'perfected' it. I got through both games without being hit by a single bullet (except one room in Max Payne 2: always seemed to get hit. Bah! xD) and enjoyed it immensely. Both games took me a good while to complete too. Repetition can be fun (for some).

Don't you get any joy from feeling you've actually achieved something? Quicksaves take away all the challenge. They're also used to hide bad game design; *avatar dies* "Arg! No way could I have seen that coming! Oh well, i can just load a quicksave".

As for "Part of my game design philosophy is...don't make players play things more than once. It's like reading every page in a book multiple times...": I find it a bit rich considering how you play (played?) DB 3v3. :p

i know what you mean i did the same while playing Tenchu^
always played the levels as often as necessary to get the highest rating for it (master ninja or smthin^?)

think so 2, repetition can be fun for some...but david's also right, i don't wanna do all stuff again when i play arcade games and die because of a silly mistake or smthin...but quicksave would take something out of it i think i dunno...it wouldnt feel like the same challenge i guess... ^

here is an example g*

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=22986


my opinion is for some games i like the sense of accomplishment once I have mastered part of a levels etc. Like Splinter Cell for example, having to be all masterful every step of the way ;o

With some games it's annoying though, when it's a case of jumping from one ridiculously small ledge to another (hi to you tomb raider).

so bit like Minigun'd (Domi) I like both depending on style of game

The_One wrote: With the Max Payne series I always used to play every scene over and over again until I 'perfected' it.

Yes this can be fun. It's your decision then. But when I first play the game without trying to make all perfect, I don't want the frustration. Just a fine experience.

The_One wrote: Quicksaves take away all the challenge. They're also used to hide bad game design

Not really, I remember Half Lifes SP level design was horrible inspite of quickload. There are no ways to hide it....just ways to put even more emphasize on it.

The_One wrote: I find it a bit rich considering how you play (played?) DB 3v3. :p

Not very well fitting comparison for many reasons. Every match is different, even though it looks the same overal. And it's sports, not a linear game.

Agreed at bunny.

I know perfecting levels from Splinter Cell...with quicksave
And as I said earlier..Mario with quicksave makes it really fun for once. Like this level

god watching the whole video atm...this is freaking awesome xD
actually really lol-ing

DavidM wrote: Not really, I remember Half Lifes SP level design was horrible inspite of quickload. There are no ways to hide it....just ways to put even more emphasize on it.

I'm making a distinction between horrible level and bad game design. Quicksaves make unexpected and unfair events more tolerable.

DavidM wrote: Not very well fitting comparison for many reasons. Every match is different, even though it looks the same overal. And it's sports, not a linear game.

You dismiss it easily but it points to the real issue. You don't mind repetition as long as the repetition is successful for you. It's failure that quicksaves protect you from.

To suggest that quicksaves don't remove the challenge from games like Mario is laughable. Individually, each section is easily doable, it's the stringing together of these sections that makes the challenge.

DavidM wrote: god watching the whole video atm...this is freaking awesome xD
actually really lol-ing

Yeah I watched it all through and was laughing out at things like

"this is horse cock in the mouth I mean who would why would WHO WOULD PUT A BLOCK THERE "

XD

No the_one... i mean repeitition as in repetition. the scripted enemies in that level move the same way every time. i have to jump on the same thin ledge everytime...etc.
deathball is unpredictable every match.


yeah bunny, that and stuff like "this is fucking worse than......" or when he's kicking the turtle from midair and that stuff xD
but tbh the last 10 minutes were boring. but the first 13 are must-watch!

DavidM wrote: deathball is unpredictable every match.

In 3v3? Not when I played against you (small sample, I know). You , and your partner in crime, seemed to be pretty scripted then. You even said as much at the time. :p Ideally it should be very unpredictable but with 3v3 I did start to wonder. Maybe you've added some new 'moves' since I stopped playing.

Back on topic (roughly), no-one else likes the idea of GTA: The Musical? How about GTA: The Opera? Italian-Americans breaking into song at seemingly random intervals? I think it would fit the series' style well. Seriously, why no games with any singing in them (as a major feature)? Am I crazy for thinking this? xD