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^ That's actually how a lot of us feel.

I dunno if people have noticed, but if the game has <6 people, the self volley slow down is unaffected. This means it only affects 4v4, 5v5 vo only games, which are many times hapless spam fests anyway.

-Weiss

Weisso wrote: I don't understand why you are shifting the focus away from the self volley, seeing as how the self volley is the root of the problem. Without the self volley power being reduced, this thread wouldn't exist.

Wrong, look at the thread title.

Oh and Phoenix, I'm not bitching or moaning in anyway... neither are Esor or Inph or whoever else...

Mael, I had been talking to the people that have been talking about the self-volley changes for the last 4+ pages.

The other thing I don't understand that they are complaining about is the fact that the self volley power also changed between 1.9b and 2.0, yet this controversy never seemed to arise at that time.

-Weiss

Mael. I didn't waste my time reading the post. Because for the most part what I did read was the same shit as in another thread. Be constructive. Don't just bitch about something. Make suggestions. Leave it like it was is not a suggestion. It is a demand. Explain what you liked about the old way the situations that you liked and maybe people would be interested in listening. When posts get forceful in posting (ie: This isn't your mod it's the community's mod leave it alone.) then noone will listen. Fact of the matter it is thier mod. They OWN it. It is thier IP. Infact. If they wanted to they could stop releasing free versions, purchase a license for the engine and sell it. Think about it. This is a "FREE" game. You don't have to do anything but play it. They do this on thier free time and being a developer myself it sux to have your work spit on by saying "Your killing the community" and shit like that. That is Opinion and not fact. Stick to facts. What you like. Why you like. what you dislike. Why you dislike. It will take u a helluva lot farther.

Ok here is what I read earlier in some thread and it would be a good idea. It would make the vo pplz happy and the reg pplz happy. Like someone mentioned above...just keep the volley power as it was in version 2.0 only if the server has VOLLEY ONLY active. If not then the volley power will be at 1200(is that the power of the self-volley in 2.1? I think so)

Lima_Bean wrote: Ok here is what I read earlier in some thread and it would be a good idea. It would make the vo pplz happy and the reg pplz happy. Like someone mentioned above...just keep the volley power as it was in version 2.0 only if the server has VOLLEY ONLY active. If not then the volley power will be at 1200(is that the power of the self-volley in 2.1? I think so)

DavidM said that, so it will be.

BTW, I did a search for self volley on the forums and the topic wasn't even discussed pre-2.1. Which goes to my point that the self volley power wasn't broke in 2.0 and should not have been nerfed.

Wow. What a train wreck this thread is.

When it comes to the self-volley vs shooting, I couldn't care less how a guy gets the ball in the net. That end result, a goal, doesn't even enter the equation for me in weighing vo play versus reg. It's the gameplay. Specifically: bad gameplay that does nothing but encourage continued bad gameplay..

What the hell.. I'll start by comparing it to sex.
Is fast and haphazard better than controlled, deliberate and purposeful?

Can't relate? Ok.. different approach then.

We might also liken reg deathball to ballet -- groups of dancers, gracefully choreographed, all having a role to play in the production. A more modern example might be Riverdance; some of the acts certainly portray back and forth struggles between two parties.
Now on the vo side of the coin, I think that playstyle is best represented as your average mosh pit. A lot of movement (action) without coordination. Endless random hitting as well. After all, it's not about playing a good game, it's about not doing nothing.

Why I offered all that.. I can't even guess. I'm tempted to explain my ebonics analogy as well, but I'll leave that for later if it's needed.. Bottom line tho? In keeping with the original subject of the thread, all I can say is that Deathball has always resembled soccer. Why argue against that now?

Fo|Phoenix wrote: Mael. I didn't waste my time reading the post. Because for the most part what I did read was the same shit as in another thread. Be constructive. Don't just bitch about something. Make suggestions. Leave it like it was is not a suggestion. It is a demand. Explain what you liked about the old way the situations that you liked and maybe people would be interested in listening. When posts get forceful in posting (ie: This isn't your mod it's the community's mod leave it alone.) then noone will listen. Fact of the matter it is thier mod. They OWN it. It is thier IP. Infact. If they wanted to they could stop releasing free versions, purchase a license for the engine and sell it. Think about it. This is a "FREE" game. You don't have to do anything but play it. They do this on thier free time and being a developer myself it sux to have your work spit on by saying "Your killing the community" and shit like that. That is Opinion and not fact. Stick to facts. What you like. Why you like. what you dislike. Why you dislike. It will take u a helluva lot farther.

The thread isn't about you, I could care less what you think about how I start a thread and why I do it. Just stay out of this.

Granted, TV's name is on Deathball but it'd be just stupid to ask for criticism and then not pay attention to it. They ASK for pieces of advise... then let me voice off and say what I fucking think. What's worse, having some ''complain'' (using your words) or someone complaining about the first one? Just shut up already, I'm not talking to any of you but Team Vortex and I do that by starting a thread where people that support my opinion can add what they think.

Fuck it I got what I wanted anyway... lol

I havnt got the chance to play much DB in the past few weeks, but I do feel I'v gotten the hang of the game and have gotten pretty good at VO games and playing regular...

Anyways, I personally don't like soccer too much because I think its boring to watch and even more boring to play depending on what position you play but overall it does have its highlights.

When I think of playing a game called deathball, a mod for UT2004, I dont think soccer. I don't think boring. What this patch has done is remarkably slowed down the game and it is beginning to resemble soccer (moreso than it already did... the models have jerseys, i mean c'mon). This is what I hoped wouldn't happen.

For what it's worth I noticed in 1-2 posts that people mentioned an old player named Surge who has been banned from these forums. Apparently he wasn't to wrong about a lot of things. He hated this sprint option DB apparently had at one point which was removed after being defended by many forum members for a long time. He has posts about stupid things in gameplay that slow the game down, stuff like pbox camping which I see a lot of, even in unorganized pub servers... not singing his praises, dont get me wrong, its just a lot of common sence put in a way that seems angry and demanding (hence why his ideas never got very far).

Regardless, I highly doubt I'll be playing as much as I once did. I come on and play on my computer because its fun. Deathball is not fun, its frustrating. There is way to much focus on winning and losing and too many tactics to reach these goals. Its the age old discussion of being a winner or being a scrub. If you use tactics in a game which will let you win, regardless of what you feel is fair, you are a winner. If you don't use them you are a scrub (google this, there is actually a VERY well written article about this if your interested...).

Through my readings I found something called the "Boost Trick" or "broom stick" or something like that, and I never quite read why it was removed... Both teams could do it, you could use certain tactics to defend against it, and the only reason it wasnt widly used (much like the current noob cannon) is because people think its cheap and refuse to. Well using "cheap" tactics is winning. Its scoring and winning not to have fun, but to win. I personally am a scrub in this case, I don't agree with these kinda of tactics but I wouldn't get rid of them just because people use them to win (the whole point of DB). Removing the 3 jump volley was stupid. It was defendable but people didnt. Finding tricks to score (the entire point of the game) is what makes this game fun, whether int he "design" or not. Look at boosting players in Counter-strike. It might appear cheap in pub games, but in the CAL leagues, EVERYONE does it, it's part of the game.

Sorry for the really long post, but I just had to get that out.

Maelstrom wrote: iDB is fucking dying, why the hell are you not listening to popular opinion yet?

All i see in this thread is 6 of one half a dozen of another. No matter what TV do to DeathBall, people are gonna like it and others are gonna hate it. And im pretty sure DavidM listens to the commmunity and not just 1 thread.

The president is gonna change the way he runs the country because of 1 letter from a civilian is he?

Maelstrom wrote:
Granted, TV's name is on Deathball but it'd be just stupid to ask for criticism and then not pay attention to it. They ASK for pieces of advise... then let me voice off and say what I fucking think. What's worse, having some ''complain'' (using your words) or someone complaining about the first one? Just shut up already, I'm not talking to any of you but Team Vortex and I do that by starting a thread where people that support my opinion can add what they think.

Im sure they want constructive criticism not just its shit and i hate it now. And not barking orders like leave it alone at them.

Any changes which discourages people like this from playing DB, who only cause more harm than good, can only be a good thing :- http://forums.gameservers.net/showthrea ... adid=15290

Weisso wrote: I don't understand why you are shifting the focus away from the self volley, seeing as how the self volley is the root of the problem. Without the self volley power being reduced, this thread wouldn't exist.

In terms of focusing on "lame" and "teamwork", these in many ways come from using the self volley to avoid the teamwork, whether by mistake, or on purpose to pad your statistics, and in the end, people think it's lame, especially those who may have been open across the box with the perfect opportunity for a shot.

Now of course, some people will counter with the statement that the person across the way isn't focusing on teamwork, because they will shoot when they get the ball. However, part of the teamwork is knowing who can score well, how you can get open, or draw defenders away, leading to a scoring chance, or when to take the ball, then pass back. In many ways, the self volley shots were the opposite of these values, which is why teams that sometimes depend on these "tricks", for example, don't always have a great deal of success, whereas teams that know when to shoot, and when to pass, without using moves like this, instead choosing to stick to the basics, are often times very successful.

-Weiss

The self volley is not the root of the problem. (At least not by the reasons you and many others have suggested.)

Your next two paragraphs talk a problem that many others have also mentioned in association with the self volley. Your talking about players who don't use teamwork and ruin the enjoyment of the game for others.

If a players hangs by the goal and power-up shoots the ball each and every time they get it, no matter what, wouldn't that be considered "lame", "egoing", and detrimental to the game?

Would reducing the powered shoot stop this player? Would removing powered shots altogether stop this player? Considering that the player still has the option to self volley and pass shoot, what is the likely result of adjusting or removing powered shots? In the end, wouldn't you still find a player that hangs by the goal and does things that are lame , egoing, and detrimental to the game?

The self volley doesn't have any effect on the values of good deathball. Players do. If it's possible for a jerk to be a jerk, they will be.

The only constructive support for the self volley rule has been about teamwork/player issues with one exception by R3L!K, in the other thread discussing this topic. The issue for most seems to be about undesirable players. Considering powered shots and pass shots can also be used in an undesirable way by undesirable players, is the self volley rule going to reduce or just move the problem? Can force bad players to pass via the self volley rule with powered and pass shots still an option?

Your next two paragraphs talk a problem that many others have also mentioned in association with the self volley. Your talking about players who don't use teamwork and ruin the enjoyment of the game for others.

what if those players in question are also the same as those who are complaining in this thread?