keepers just gotta play and think a bit more
those who stand on the line doing nothing will not die out either, the other thing is too advanced
the New keeping style (on the pboxline)
Moderators: Jay2k1, DavidM, The_One
-
Catalyst88
- Posts: 707
- Joined: 18-03-2003 12:02
The best keepers are the ones who know how to do both - they are the least predictable for the attackers. If a keeper fakes a jump out then they can just move back when the attacker starts charging and save easily (because they've just made the attacker charge too early and shoot from too far out to be effective). If a keeper has the chance to kill someone in the Pbox that's good defensive play. Forcing a keeper to sit on the line and dodge is 1) not fun and 2) too restrictive - the best keepers shouldn't do that anyway, you've got to cover angles adequately and you just _can't_ do that if you're forced to stay back. I like keeping the way it is... it doesn't need changing. In the end it depends on the way you want to play. Forcing people to play one way is Not Good(tm). There are too many arbitrary restrictions on DB these days (mostly to stop whores from, well, whoring moves, but some, like not being able to pass to a player who's been boosted by the enemy, are just a bit silly).
I can't believe u think this is new...
Did u ever play with Harold while he was playing?
Or have u played against Drifter?
They were both keeping like that in 1.4b ffs. (and others were 2)
Did u ever play with Harold while he was playing?
Or have u played against Drifter?
They were both keeping like that in 1.4b ffs. (and others were 2)
Last edited by f1end on 12-12-2003 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
-
Catalyst88
- Posts: 707
- Joined: 18-03-2003 12:02
-
[V3]Optimal
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: 21-07-2003 00:44
Not a lot of keepers are coming out though. When I play in pugs/matches the keep still sits back and trys to save shots. If keepers actually put the rush on all the time offense would be slowed down big time. Keepers have the biggest advantage over offenders. They just need to get comfortable adjusting to the style.
-
theberkin8or
- Senior Member
- Posts: 794
- Joined: 09-03-2003 20:41
cata i am not talking about removing the ablity to jump out of the box, or have the keeper powers anywhere in the pbox, what I am saying the keeper loses his ablity once he gets out of the box and then doesn't get it back until he goes back the keeper box. the way it used to be. So the style would still be possible but it would be more risky.
and no i don't think it is completely new but it think it is becoming more effective as the d learns to adapt to help it (but no i never played against harold and i have no clue how this style would be possible in 1.4b because the keeping powers were limited to the keeper box then and this style relys on the ablity to dodge out and hit the player that is about to shoot... in fact this defines the style i am talking about)
another way to fix this would be to give the O a faster pass shot back to allow for a quick shot over the keepers head that they can't just dodge back and get (Like they currently can). this would force the keeper only to come out when they were sure they could get the ball.
this isn't THAT bad now but my guess is it will be worse as keepers realize the ablity to jump out @ a much faster speed than most O can react to (or are used to reacting to) is very effective. to me this isn't what a keeper should be doing they should be there to stop shots not stop shots from ever happending (that is the role of the defender not the keeper).
as a final note: cata i agree there are a lot of restrictions on players in db to prevent laming but it is important to remember who these restrictions are placed on. for the most part they are placed on the O side of the game and imo changing something back to what it used to be isn't a restriction.
and no i don't think it is completely new but it think it is becoming more effective as the d learns to adapt to help it (but no i never played against harold and i have no clue how this style would be possible in 1.4b because the keeping powers were limited to the keeper box then and this style relys on the ablity to dodge out and hit the player that is about to shoot... in fact this defines the style i am talking about)
another way to fix this would be to give the O a faster pass shot back to allow for a quick shot over the keepers head that they can't just dodge back and get (Like they currently can). this would force the keeper only to come out when they were sure they could get the ball.
this isn't THAT bad now but my guess is it will be worse as keepers realize the ablity to jump out @ a much faster speed than most O can react to (or are used to reacting to) is very effective. to me this isn't what a keeper should be doing they should be there to stop shots not stop shots from ever happending (that is the role of the defender not the keeper).
as a final note: cata i agree there are a lot of restrictions on players in db to prevent laming but it is important to remember who these restrictions are placed on. for the most part they are placed on the O side of the game and imo changing something back to what it used to be isn't a restriction.
if they were to reimpliment the 'keeper box' i'd deffiantely be making them bigger in any map I make. you know how pissed off as a keeper I would be if i hit a ball to the side and it ended up getting shot back at me and i go to dodge left to save the wide angle shot and found out i lost keeper cuz part of my pawn was standing just outside of the little keeper box?
that would suck.. the keeper area works good. this isn't a deathball code issue, its a mapper preference. if they want the game to be harder for the goalie they make the pbox smaller. playing pole humping goalie is no fun anyway :<
I do know what you mean about the D making alot of save ::thanks thex!:: but hey, the save that D is making while the agressive goalie is jumping out at someone, someone else on offense for the other team is open for a pass. and whats that D gonna do if the pass is made and shot out of his pansy little walking distance range
lets bitch about boosting power instead. all i see now adays is people flying in the air too much power. its BoostBall not deathball now
I'd like to see the boost against other team be as powerful as it is now to boost your own team...
that would suck.. the keeper area works good. this isn't a deathball code issue, its a mapper preference. if they want the game to be harder for the goalie they make the pbox smaller. playing pole humping goalie is no fun anyway :<
I do know what you mean about the D making alot of save ::thanks thex!:: but hey, the save that D is making while the agressive goalie is jumping out at someone, someone else on offense for the other team is open for a pass. and whats that D gonna do if the pass is made and shot out of his pansy little walking distance range
lets bitch about boosting power instead. all i see now adays is people flying in the air too much power. its BoostBall not deathball now
I'd like to see the boost against other team be as powerful as it is now to boost your own team...
-
theberkin8or
- Senior Member
- Posts: 794
- Joined: 09-03-2003 20:41
lol for one boost on the other team is MORE powerful than it is for your own team (don't belieave me read some of the past change lists).
and passing the ball away doesn't work as well as it does in VO (which i do believe is what you mostly play) becuase often the reason you are shooting in the first place is because there is a hole in the defence which most likly means the other players on your team are coverd (that is how holes form against good teams most of the time).
as an example of the problem I see: imagion a situations where you have three O up and two D back. Now both D are marking players that are on either side of the pbox so they are not covering the middle and the man in the middle has the ball. Normally this would be a mistake for the d becuase they should make sure they are covering the man with the ball or @ least able to shake him b4 he can get a shot off BUT now you have the keeper siting on the line just waiting for the O to charge up to dodge out and hit him. The O can't move back and forth to avoid the hit becuase if he does he will be in range of the other D. The O's only chance is to time the shot just right so that it goes over the keeper but wait the keeper can dodge out... so from that i hope you can see what i mean about keepers playing D in a way that I don't believe was intented for them to have powers for. Even with my "fix" they could still do this but they would be taking a chance that the other O would get the rebound. and be able to shoot or volley b4 they can get back.
Also consider the situation where you have 3 D back (as is the case most of the time) and you have the keeper on the line a Defender behind him to stop any slow shot that got by the keeper (which generally are the shots that get by) and defenders covering your passes... imo just isn't how the game should be designed to be played.
also inph, unless they jump out of the pbox they will not lose their keeping powers which means in that situation it is exactally the same as it is now... they don't lose powers faster or more they just can't get them back as fast... hope this clears that up for you.
and passing the ball away doesn't work as well as it does in VO (which i do believe is what you mostly play) becuase often the reason you are shooting in the first place is because there is a hole in the defence which most likly means the other players on your team are coverd (that is how holes form against good teams most of the time).
as an example of the problem I see: imagion a situations where you have three O up and two D back. Now both D are marking players that are on either side of the pbox so they are not covering the middle and the man in the middle has the ball. Normally this would be a mistake for the d becuase they should make sure they are covering the man with the ball or @ least able to shake him b4 he can get a shot off BUT now you have the keeper siting on the line just waiting for the O to charge up to dodge out and hit him. The O can't move back and forth to avoid the hit becuase if he does he will be in range of the other D. The O's only chance is to time the shot just right so that it goes over the keeper but wait the keeper can dodge out... so from that i hope you can see what i mean about keepers playing D in a way that I don't believe was intented for them to have powers for. Even with my "fix" they could still do this but they would be taking a chance that the other O would get the rebound. and be able to shoot or volley b4 they can get back.
Also consider the situation where you have 3 D back (as is the case most of the time) and you have the keeper on the line a Defender behind him to stop any slow shot that got by the keeper (which generally are the shots that get by) and defenders covering your passes... imo just isn't how the game should be designed to be played.
also inph, unless they jump out of the pbox they will not lose their keeping powers which means in that situation it is exactally the same as it is now... they don't lose powers faster or more they just can't get them back as fast... hope this clears that up for you.
-
theberkin8or
- Senior Member
- Posts: 794
- Joined: 09-03-2003 20:41
-
theberkin8or
- Senior Member
- Posts: 794
- Joined: 09-03-2003 20:41
