The time kill and other concerns

night · Post by **night** » 15-04-2003 01:27

Surge wrote: Also the whole arguement about possesion time works out to approx 18 minutes you had posession and 12 we had possession. Thats 6 minutes of time kill there alone.
[plus lots more whiney crap]

omfg. it is not your god given right to have equal time to the ball. it IS you right to work under the same rules they do and get the damn ball from them.

i feel sorry for SoP to have all this bullshit under their name

Agent_X · Post by **Agent_X** » 15-04-2003 01:39

Hmm... After viewing the demo earlier today, I would have to agree that Surge is completely wrong, and that writing 250+ word replies is not going to change that. Also, is it just me, or is this just a game? We are supposed to be having fun. You are making it sound like you are being forced to play. If you arent having fun anymore, then quit. Well, thats my 2 cents anywayz.

Peace,

Agent _X

theberkin8or · Post by **theberkin8or** » 15-04-2003 01:42

surge clearly having more possession than sop is not a crime, i don't even think that any of the suggested changes (which btw i still strongly support cept the not being able to pass back past the mid line cuz that would just suc imo) would have effected the way that rush played, infact i saw more passes back to the keeper by sop than by rush... like i said b4 keep a away if truely done just for keep away is bad but possession ball is ok (though i do think it should be limited or it can be abused)

i would like the hear the con side on the arguements against the actual ideas of:
1. keeper not being able to get pass backed to
2. 1 min. (time can be played with) limit on the amount of time your team can have the ball in your half
3.limit on time that a single player can hold the ball

i know there is the whole "it doesn't need to be done" arguement but i truely feel that we can prove that wrong, and if neccarry i am sure we can get a group of players together and show it

night · Post by **night** » 15-04-2003 01:59

theberkin8or wrote: 1. keeper not being able to get pass backed to
2. 1 min. (time can be played with) limit on the amount of time your team can have the ball in your half
3.limit on time that a single player can hold the ball

ok, this could be fun....

1 and 2 are the same thing as far as im concerned. if the team/players are pressuring correctly [ahem, not to name anyone], then you will need that outlet to the keep on occasion.
and u cant always get across the mid line that fast. personally i hate long passes that try to force it down field.
this game is about patience. or what it should be about anyway. anyone that knows/seen me play, can tell you that i will hold the ball for as long as i need to until i see a play develop. i play nearly the entire game from the radar, and the ball will not leave me until there is an opportunity.
im sure my offensive guys get annoyed at times, but it for the better. you want quality chances, not quantity.

if the other team will let you hold the ball that long, then take advantage of it.

theberkin8or · Post by **theberkin8or** » 15-04-2003 02:18

i think we are coming from different goals here, i want the game to be a little faster than i think it is going to become as teams realize that possession ball can be very powerful, i don't want to have to chase after the keeper everytime the other team gets the ball just so the other team can get numbers on my team, for me that is not fun, cuz my actions are pretty much futile (the chances of even a skilled player catching a pass from a one to one mark are not very high) so i get to run all the way across the field to just have the player pass around me, i don't think many ppl would think of that as fun, and if i don't run to him he gets to sit there as long as he wants with the ball, again not fun at all.

as for you other arguements i disagree that you should have all the time in the world to work up your prefect play i think you should have some pressure on you besides just the other team (which if you use the keeper can be pretty little pressure), maybe you could up the time to 1 min and a half but after that you should be able to get the ball past your half, if the other team is marking well i believe they should be rewarded not punished (as losing clock time is punishing for a lossing team)

just as a side note and i promise i am not personally attacking you but i think you should probably refrane from using statements that in effect mean "i like to do" "i do this" or the oppisite in your arguement. i am sure i have done the same, but if you are going to yell at surge for it then you should try not to do it yourself (again not attacking you just trying help you out

)

Just because you like to do something doesn't mean that it is automatically good for the game, i loved dribbling but that doesn't make it good for the game, for an example that you will relate to more easily: a lot of ppl love volleying but that doesn't mean it is good for the game (not saying weither or not it is)

Rampart · Post by **Rampart** » 15-04-2003 02:21

1. Con: Sometimes you need the outlet right off the bat. And the keeper gets rid of the ball in 7 seconds anyway. It isn't always abused, so why kill the legitimate use.

2. No real Con

3. If done the same way as pbox timer, you'd get some random resets that just wouldn't be fun. If not done that way... then explain the problem with the bomb-ball mutator. Also, if a player can only hold the ball for so long, the defense doesn't have to guard someone who gets the ball far back, and can just do heavy coverage on everyone else. With any reasonable timer, the player wouldn't be able to walk the field... and through heavy coverage, couldn't get a good pass off. If he can get all the way down the field, then the timer is useless in the first place.

Last bit of comments jsut to beat a dead horse.
http://www.nba.com/analysis/00422949.html

If you're going to know the shotclock example.. be familiar with the history.

-Full court press didn't prevent ball holding techniques. A matchup of th best teams ended in a 3-1 4th quarter.

-Ball control was, and still is a major part of basketball. Its just that now ball control is limited to 24 second intervals, where you can't hold it more than that without giving a reasonable chance to the other team.

-In Deathball, unlike Basketball, you CAN foul someone and get the ball without penalty. The skill lies in being able to foul them in the correct intervals, because health regenerates (not a bad thing).

-I have made no valid point, and my argument does not have any force in either direction.

Rampart · Post by **Rampart** » 15-04-2003 02:24

Oh.. and to expound on the second point in my second set of points (the 24 second thing) At every 24 second intervals, its not directly giving a chance to the other team, its forcing a contest between your team and the other team every 24 seconds. If your team dominates enough to get the ball back after every interval, then you can hold the ball as long as you want.

theberkin8or · Post by **theberkin8or** » 15-04-2003 02:29

1. Con: Sometimes you need the outlet right off the bat. And the keeper gets rid of the ball in 7 seconds anyway. It isn't always abused, so why kill the legitimate use.

ramp, i am suprized to hear you say that becuase i know for a fact that your keeper often doesn't do that, dirt likes to bounce the ball off the wall and come out of the box with the ball a lot.

and about the time, my sugestion for what happends when you hold the ball to long is that it resets into the possession of the other teams keeper. so there wouldn't be a way to abuse this.

btw all the suggestions can be taken together or one at a time, clearly the player time restriction wouldn't work with the keeper not being able to be passed tol cuz it is true that the other team could just dig in a make passing impossible for the one player. so having the keeper there is important

Surge · Post by **Surge** » 15-04-2003 02:31

I find it ironic that your all calling me a whiney bastard even tho I did not bring up mention of the game and your all discussing my idea... please go shoot yourself Night

theberkin8or · Post by **theberkin8or** » 15-04-2003 02:35

surge that is clearly not true.... you did talk about the game in your last post... and in every post you have made on the subject (i when back and checked to make sure)

Rampart · Post by **Rampart** » 15-04-2003 02:37

Berk.. to my knowledge, Dirt does that to get outside positioning... not to stall play. I shouldn't speak for dirt though.

theberkin8or · Post by **theberkin8or** » 15-04-2003 02:43

ramp. i think you have gotten my ideas mixed up, i was not accussing dirt of stalling play i am say that it is (or at least could be done) to force the other team to come to him when he could just pass around them, which there by gives your a player advantage

Surge · Post by **Surge** » 15-04-2003 02:46

Berk i said in the first post "the game we just played" and wasnt at all specific about it... blame the people who actually poisted about the game about it (cept psyche, he actually made sence)

f1end · Post by **f1end** » 15-04-2003 10:14

Surge wrote: Blah, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

Grow up FFS.

I do actually agree with a couple of points u have made about the recent changes in deathball...but this really isn't the way to get your point accross. Do you really think anyone is going to listen to an opinionated, arogant, imature nob?

Larc · Post by **Larc** » 15-04-2003 16:19

theberkin8or wrote:
1. keeper not being able to get pass backed to
2. 1 min. (time can be played with) limit on the amount of time your team can have the ball in your half
3.limit on time that a single player can hold the ball

1- i just feel its ok to do this... as long is its not for the reason of wasting time, so i dont like this idea.
2- the exact time limit can be tweaked... but i think this could work...
3- exploitable... but ok, someone could put the ball on the ground and wait by it... though at least they are doing something with it so there is a chance for mistake. something that may enforce the intention better would be similar but clock starts when touched, then reset only when someone else touches it... so if i touched it put it down, waited 10 seconds then picked it up it would trigger.

hmm, 2 could have the same problem as 3... i guess i'm not sure how the code is done.

when discussing this i feel like we're patching the game... it may work... just wondering if there's something else to be done to change the game style vs rules... yeah i know... the last thing we need is more style changes.