I'm ignoring the fact that when the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was *during a war* and thus hardly an act of terrorism.
Many, many more people would have died if the atomic weapons had not been used. The Japanese mentality at the time was that there was honour in death, and every man, woman and child in the country would have battled until their last breath. The Pacific conflict would have gone on for another decade, with casualties in the hundreds of thousands for both sides. In fact, on remote pacific islands, US forces were *still* fighting soliders who refused to surrender as late as 1958. Now imagine an entire nation doing that...
It was a horrific thing, and one that should never be repeated, I'm not doubting that, but I think that it was done for very good reason.
brake this !
Moderators: Jay2k1, DavidM, The_One
Last edited by -plær- on 25-01-2004 12:18, edited 1 time in total.
Holy_Surfing wrote: "If you returned to the past.. with complete notion of humanity's historical events.. and you'd walk into a coffee shop... and there was Hitler there... still a small boy.. a little boy... only 9 or 10 years old... You'd think.... there's the kid that'll grow up and become eventually responsible for the darkest moment known to man... for the sum of 6 million dead, without counting soldiers... You sit by his side, look at him.. there he is, right in front of ya... as you look at him, he's nothing but a simple innocent boy right now....
...would you kill him there?"
Saw that movie too, can't recall the name either.
I wouldn't kill him, as a matter of fact I wouldn't do anything.
Why? A simple, seemingly unimportant event in the past can change a whole future.
Why not prevent World War II you ask?
Why would I? Who knows what would have happened? You can not imagine by the slightest bit, and then, World War II and Hitler, yes even Hitler himself, brought germany and the world so many positive things.
It's often said that "Hitler did bad things, but he gave germany some very good roads"
Stop demonising Adolf Hitler for a sec, and think of all the great things he had done for his country, I'm sure that if he had died before he began breaking rules, changing the entire political system in Germany, and began implementing and exercising heavy discriminative rules and measures, everyone, not only in Germany, would have seen him as one of the greatest leader in the century.
He was a great charismatic leader, a tactical mastermind, he gave the germans jobs, and pulled the german country up from the hellhole it had come into after world war I and it's extreme measures by the 'winning' party.
Also, war is not a bad thing in the long run.
War has given us so many great inventions, nobody would have bothered thinking of or constructing if there were no war.
I could name many examples like computers and planes (which, yes, I agree, could and would have been thought of later if there were no war) but the truth stands: war gave our technical progression such a great boost every time, that we would have not even been half as far as we are now if there would not have been any war, let alone any 'anger', fights and uproar at all.
It's always an odd condundrum. Computing, Rockets, and god knows what else were only *developed* because of their tactical uses in the theatre of war.
What would you rather have today, your hot new PC, or the FIFTY MILLION PEOPLE who died in WWII?
What would you rather have today, your hot new PC, or the FIFTY MILLION PEOPLE who died in WWII?
Is that a rhetorical question?
I'm definitely gonna pick my hot new pc then
(altho it's not that new..it IS hot ;p need some new cooling 
)
Not because I'm so materialistic (altho I am, but it's not the point atm), but err..where would we put all those fifty million people? ;p
And the war (and not only this one, but *especially* this one) gave us many more advantages besides my hot pc
I'm definitely gonna pick my hot new pc then
(altho it's not that new..it IS hot ;p need some new cooling )Not because I'm so materialistic (altho I am, but it's not the point atm), but err..where would we put all those fifty million people? ;p
And the war (and not only this one, but *especially* this one) gave us many more advantages besides my hot pc
Many ppl these days always blame U.S.A for everything bad that happens in the world....
U often claim usa to think they are some kind of world police...
but do they think that? coz every previous attacks like Kosovo, and Bosnia were supported by the UN, thus requiring the support of France, China, Russia and UK... and were those attacks a bad thing? (hundreds of ppl died just like in Iraq) but the managed to remove Milosevic from the Yoguslavian government and ending the massacre, thats a good thing......
In Iraq, they accomplish the same goal, another dictator falls, and democracy wins....the country its still a mess, but u'll see thats what will happen...
YES, this is all political, and its a war for oil.... but the way other countries (france germany russia u know the others) acted towards the americans was not coz they felt sry for the hundreds of ppl that would die, infact Hussein would go on killin hundreds of iraqis every year....y they did it then? for political reasons also...
surprise, surprise
"TotalFinaElf (french company) reportedly has signed a deal [in 2001] with Iraq on development rights for Majnoon [the oilfield]," said the U.S. report. "Future development of Majnoon could ultimately lead to production of 450,000 barrels per day in two years for US$4-billion and could eventually produce about one million barrels per day."
"This February, a Russian company negotiated a contract for Bin Umar [an oilfield in Iraq]."
u cant point the finger at USA, like the other countries act different, coz they dont... in this world its all about power, money, economy... the strongest survives....
on another subject:
Y do ppl think so bad about George W. Bush, coz he had drinkin problems in youth, i bet u guys never got drunk (sure!), coz he acts like a normal person instead of actin with all those formalities we usually see from politicians? y?
he was actually the 1st US president to talk about creating a Palestinian nation...what a crap that must be for palestinians. The truth is we only say bush is an idiot coz the media tell us to...
Every week there's some news, as irrelevant as they can be, tryin to mock with Bush....either it is cause he wants to cut out trees to prevent fires, thus creating 10000 new jobs and preventing major pollution caused by fires.... or it is coz hes holding a plastic turkey at the dinner with US soldiers in Iraq (it is usual to have a sample plastic dish at this kind of feast, obviously he couldnt take a pic with the food that soldiers are eating), and so on.. this news are just stupid imo...
And Yes, USA spend more money in warfare than any other country....yes, there r many ppl dying with no food in the world...but, i doubt other countries gave as much money to united nation humanitarian campaigns as the USA.....
so actually, when ppl say things like "they should use that money for helping poor children". ppl r actually expecting USA to be more than just another country, ppl expect USA to be the world saviour, instead of being just another country fighting for its economy...
but, hey, thats just my opinion... i have the right to have my opinion... as u have the right to disagree with my point of view....
U often claim usa to think they are some kind of world police...
but do they think that? coz every previous attacks like Kosovo, and Bosnia were supported by the UN, thus requiring the support of France, China, Russia and UK... and were those attacks a bad thing? (hundreds of ppl died just like in Iraq) but the managed to remove Milosevic from the Yoguslavian government and ending the massacre, thats a good thing......
In Iraq, they accomplish the same goal, another dictator falls, and democracy wins....the country its still a mess, but u'll see thats what will happen...
YES, this is all political, and its a war for oil.... but the way other countries (france germany russia u know the others) acted towards the americans was not coz they felt sry for the hundreds of ppl that would die, infact Hussein would go on killin hundreds of iraqis every year....y they did it then? for political reasons also...
surprise, surprise
"TotalFinaElf (french company) reportedly has signed a deal [in 2001] with Iraq on development rights for Majnoon [the oilfield]," said the U.S. report. "Future development of Majnoon could ultimately lead to production of 450,000 barrels per day in two years for US$4-billion and could eventually produce about one million barrels per day."
"This February, a Russian company negotiated a contract for Bin Umar [an oilfield in Iraq]."
u cant point the finger at USA, like the other countries act different, coz they dont... in this world its all about power, money, economy... the strongest survives....
on another subject:
Y do ppl think so bad about George W. Bush, coz he had drinkin problems in youth, i bet u guys never got drunk (sure!), coz he acts like a normal person instead of actin with all those formalities we usually see from politicians? y?
he was actually the 1st US president to talk about creating a Palestinian nation...what a crap that must be for palestinians. The truth is we only say bush is an idiot coz the media tell us to...
Every week there's some news, as irrelevant as they can be, tryin to mock with Bush....either it is cause he wants to cut out trees to prevent fires, thus creating 10000 new jobs and preventing major pollution caused by fires.... or it is coz hes holding a plastic turkey at the dinner with US soldiers in Iraq (it is usual to have a sample plastic dish at this kind of feast, obviously he couldnt take a pic with the food that soldiers are eating), and so on.. this news are just stupid imo...
And Yes, USA spend more money in warfare than any other country....yes, there r many ppl dying with no food in the world...but, i doubt other countries gave as much money to united nation humanitarian campaigns as the USA.....
so actually, when ppl say things like "they should use that money for helping poor children". ppl r actually expecting USA to be more than just another country, ppl expect USA to be the world saviour, instead of being just another country fighting for its economy...
but, hey, thats just my opinion... i have the right to have my opinion... as u have the right to disagree with my point of view....
Cenotaph wrote: Y do ppl think so bad about George W. Bush, coz he had drinkin problems in youth, i bet u guys never got drunk (sure!), coz he acts like a normal person instead of actin with all those formalities we usually see from politicians? y?
None of those. It's because he is a shill who is controlled by his "advisers" who only have their own interests, or those of big business America, at heart. He is only in a position of power because Daddy was able to buy it in Supreme Court, even after an election WHICH HE ACTUALLY LOST
Not to mention the the coverups, lies and corruption.
the atom bomb wasnt an act of terrorism, it was an act of war... remember... the war? you know! the big world thing! yeah, you got it ...
Besides, Germany were heading the race for the atomic bomb, god love the history channel..
Hitler, too, was not a great leader... he was in fact a lazy twat who was a semi-genius...
Hitler was built up as this super leader, by propaganda alone... he was a shit polition and if it wasnt for his 'subordinates' he wudda been ousted, probably by the army, a few years into his run.. God love history :O .. fook, i forgot to do that homework 
Anyway........... Politics wouldnt be politics without the lies, corruption, propaganda/spin, scandles and coverups... hell, the only reason any of you care about such matters is because you hear about it all!
Who really cares what they did ... the world is as the world does, "and that is not for us to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." gg gandalf
EDIT: and the world would be a really shit place if it wasnt for World War 2 ... Britain esp would be a right shit hole... wait... .. ah.. :p
Besides, Germany were heading the race for the atomic bomb, god love the history channel..
Hitler, too, was not a great leader... he was in fact a lazy twat who was a semi-genius...
Hitler was built up as this super leader, by propaganda alone... he was a shit polition and if it wasnt for his 'subordinates' he wudda been ousted, probably by the army, a few years into his run..
God love history :O .. fook, i forgot to do that homework Anyway........... Politics wouldnt be politics without the lies, corruption, propaganda/spin, scandles and coverups... hell, the only reason any of you care about such matters is because you hear about it all!
Who really cares what they did ... the world is as the world does, "and that is not for us to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." gg gandalf
EDIT: and the world would be a really shit place if it wasnt for World War 2 ... Britain esp would be a right shit hole... wait... .. ah.. :p
gg adding shit spam posts to the thread =\
Not the place.
I agree with Jr (which Ceno already pointed out too), when he says that big political leaders are not just leaders, but they are supported by advisers, ministers, and whatever a country's political system can come up with.
Well, I say duh =\ But the fact stands that Hitler and his crew did a great job building up germany.
*goes to finish reading his book*
Not the place.
I agree with Jr (which Ceno already pointed out too), when he says that big political leaders are not just leaders, but they are supported by advisers, ministers, and whatever a country's political system can come up with.
Well, I say duh =\ But the fact stands that Hitler and his crew did a great job building up germany.
*goes to finish reading his book*
Dont get me wrong, Hitler had it all right.. he didnt trick the people, he eliminated unemployment and revived the econemy.. but the fact is, he didnt fully put *himself* into it
Because he was such an imposing dictator (as they were lead to believe) his will was the law, if he wanted it done, even if he didnt say it, it was done for him... it's really strange.. he did very little and yet accomplished so much (or at least, got the credit) .. i suppose that was part of his semi-genius.. how he set these people up for labour and got their credit
... wait, *ahem* hitler bad bad man!!!
Wait.. this is too much of an intelligent debate....
KTHXLOLZ HRHR
ok, continue...
Because he was such an imposing dictator (as they were lead to believe) his will was the law, if he wanted it done, even if he didnt say it, it was done for him... it's really strange.. he did very little and yet accomplished so much (or at least, got the credit) .. i suppose that was part of his semi-genius.. how he set these people up for labour and got their credit
... wait, *ahem* hitler bad bad man!!!
Wait.. this is too much of an intelligent debate....
KTHXLOLZ HRHR
ok, continue...
-
[GR]Kermit
- Posts: 1312
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9/11 wasn't that bad that many people think of it.
More cruelly:
-- The scheming of the Nazis with Jews and political Enemys from 1933 until 1945. (About 6 Million Jews victims)
-- The atom bombs over Japan
-- The bombing of Dresden
-- Pearl Harbour
oMG i'm so tired!
Erm i think i have to mention that the US combed in Gulf War I a hospital in northern iraq and there were killed 3500 people.
More cruelly:
-- The scheming of the Nazis with Jews and political Enemys from 1933 until 1945. (About 6 Million Jews victims)
-- The atom bombs over Japan
-- The bombing of Dresden
-- Pearl Harbour
oMG i'm so tired!
Erm i think i have to mention that the US combed in Gulf War I a hospital in northern iraq and there were killed 3500 people.
The Final Solution probably was the worst case of genocide ever.. maybe ;o
How many kurds did Sadam do over?
Pearl Harbour wasnt a malicious attack, it was war.. albeit the start of, for the US/Japan. but if you're gunna list the Atomic Bomb, then you gotta list it.. since it led to it.. (Tora, Tora, Tora is a great film, btw :p)
anyway, cant we move onto more ... well.. less-violent intelligent topics
How many kurds did Sadam do over?
Pearl Harbour wasnt a malicious attack, it was war.. albeit the start of, for the US/Japan. but if you're gunna list the Atomic Bomb, then you gotta list it.. since it led to it.. (Tora, Tora, Tora is a great film, btw :p)
anyway, cant we move onto more ... well.. less-violent intelligent topics
-plær- wrote: None of those. It's because he is a shill who is controlled by his "advisers" who only have their own interests, or those of big business America, at heart. He is only in a position of power because Daddy was able to buy it in Supreme Court, even after an election WHICH HE ACTUALLY LOST
Not to mention the the coverups, lies and corruption.
so he is obviously moved by some1 else's interests, so were previous US presidents, as well as prolly every leader in the world....
everybody knows he always wanted to make war on Iraq, everybody knows his main supporter for the election campaign was a Texan oil company...
and about Daddy being able to buy the supreme court, honestly i dont believe so. y would that happen, and wouldnt the Vice-President Gore be able to "buy" the judges also?
the instability that could occur in such a great country for dont actually knowing who's presidents, that can bring serious breakdows to the economy...
besides, none is actually sure Gore won in Florida afaik, to me that is Democrats expeculation....